Greg
Dulli
By Frank Valish
Greg Dulli’s career thus
far has been a storied one. He formed rock and roll powerhouse The Afghan Whigs
in Cincinnati in 1986; the Whigs went on to release some of the best and most
lauded alternative rock of the 90s—1993’s Gentleman being
applauded as one of the best rock albums of its time. Since breaking up the
Whigs in 2001, Dulli and his new project, the sleeker, sexier Twilight Singers,
have gone on to release three albums—the most recent of which was 2004’s
She Loves You, a cover album that saw Dulli interpreting songs from artists
as diverse as Nina Simone, Mary J. Blige, and Fleetwood Mac. Currently, Dulli
is preparing to release Amber Headlights under his own name. Rather
than new music, Amber Headlights is the long-lost batch of half-finished
demos that Dulli cut after disbanding the Whigs, a project that he ultimately
shelved when friend and filmmaker Ted Demme passed away in 2002. Dulli spoke
with UTR from his home in sunny Los Angeles, where he has begun work on a new
Twilight Singers album.We had the chance to speak with Dulli about his career,
Amber Headlights, the demise of the Whigs, and the projects he has on tap for
the future, not the least of which is his highly anticipated Gutter Twins collaboration
with ex-Screaming Trees vocalist Mark Lanegan.
Under The Radar: Hi Greg.
So, where am I calling? Are you in L.A. right now?
Greg Dulli: [in mock weatherman tone]
Los Angeles, California. 71 degrees. Fa-a-a-antastic day.
UTR: Taking some time off
before heading overseas? [Ed. note: Dulli will be playing live shows with Mark
Lanegan as Gutter Twins and with Italian group After Hours as a sideman]
Greg: I wish. I’m starting
to mix songs for the actual next Twilight [Singers] record. I’m going
over to meet with the string composer today and then we’re going to lay
the strings down tomorrow on four songs.
UTR: So the writing’s
completed for the record?
Greg: Nah, I write up until the bitter
end.
UTR: I wanted to talk to
you first about Amber Headlights. I know that when you recorded these
songs, the first Twilight Singers album [2000’s Twilight as Played
by The Twilight Singers] had come out about a year and a half earlier,
and you’d just recently announced the breakup of the Whigs. So, tell me
about the headspace you were in when you recorded these songs for Amber Headlights.
Where were you planning on going with the project?
Greg: Well, I had just announced
the breakup of the Whigs and started working on some songs. Some of the songs
were songs that I had for the Whigs and, you know, when we got there, it just
wasn’t working out. So I sat on them. And when I mean I brought songs,
I did not bring completed songs, I never did to the band. I would just do them
on the spot with them. Because unless I have instruments in front of me, you
know, I play basketball. So my headspace, I would probably categorize it as
tentative and probably out of sorts. I had never broken up a band before. Not
a band of 12, 13, 14 years, you know what I mean? So I think I was kind of sad
and kind of mourning something that meant a lot to me. So I think I probably
just went in by the seat of my pants.
UTR: Was there something
about the logistics of bringing these particular songs to that band that didn’t
work and led to the breakup of the band?
Greg: No. It was just a general feeling
of being out of sorts. We were coming in from 4 [different places]. We had decided
to meet in Cincinnati to work on the record. Rick and I hadn’t lived there
in a decade. And when we got there, I think we just felt like fish out of water
and did not know what to do. For the last record that we made—which makes
sense that it was the last record that we made—we all got together down
in New Orleans, and we hadn’t seen each other in a year and a half when
we got together to do [1998’s] 1965. But we all lived together
in New Orleans, and that record was probably the most cohesive record we had
done since we were 21 or 22 years old, because we were all hanging out all the
time. By the time we hit [1992’s] Congregation, we were kind
of scattered all over and that worked really well for a while, but then when
people started having kids and stuff like that, it got a little tough to keep
it down.
UTR: It sounds like you knew,
at least in part, that this was not going to be a long-term thing anymore, at
the time when you had some of these songs and you were coming in to try to do
it.
Greg: Uh, correct. I went into the
final Whigs situation with the best intentions, but you can’t squeeze
blood from a stone. And it finally wasn’t happening anymore. So I just
took the songs, took the riffs that I had and went back to California. And I
didn’t do anything for [a while]. I went over to England and remixed the
first Twilight record with Fila [Brazillia, a British ambient duo] and then
I came back and I did I guess like two weeks of shows with the Twilight Singers,
and then I didn’t do anything for about a year. I didn’t play music
for like a year.
UTR: I know that you stopped
writing the album when Ted Demme passed away. What effect did Demme’s
passing have on the place you were coming from with your songwriting at the
time? In other words, was there a reassessment or change in focus or direction
as a result?
Greg: Well, I’ll put it to
you this way. Amber Headlights, as it is now, was a work in progress
that stopped. That record was not complete. That is not a complete record, because
I usually will write at least 20 to 25 songs and then pick through and put together
the best record that I possibly can. So I was literally barely halfway through
the process when Ted died. And I can’t say that all of those songs would
have made it. I can say that I liked them enough to complete them as best I
could. But when Ted died, that record meant nothing to me because it wasn’t
reflective of where I was as a human being, which is kind of the way I’ve
always done music. So I stopped and I started all over again and that became
[2003’s] Blackberry Belle, and for Blackberry Belle,
with the exception of “Get the Wheel” which became “Follow
You Down,” all of those songs were brand new at that point.
UTR: Is there a sense of
relief, like a big sigh now that these are out? Like a weight has been lifted?
Is it cathartic at all?
Greg: It’s cathartic to me
in the way that I know everybody knew about the project and, like I said, I
wanted to get it out from behind me so that I could move on. I mean, I’m
sitting on 15 new songs right now, plus I’m sitting on 13 Gutter Twins
songs. So, having this out from behind me is allowing me to move on.
UTR: I wanted to ask you
about the genesis of the Gutter Twins [the project Dulli began with Mark Lanegan].
You said you have some songs completed. How did that project come about?
Greg: Mark and I had been friends
for a long time. Mark and I started actually working together in 2000 briefly
on some of his songs. And then I played him some of mine and then we sort of
talked about doing something together, but that wasn’t the Gutter Twins.
And then he got the Queens [of the Stone Age] job and took off with that and
I continued on with what I was working on. And then Ted died and then I restarted
and then Mark came back in after than, because he’s on Blackberry
Belle. And then I played on his record, and then he toured with me and
I toured with him and at the end of me touring with him, that’s when we
talked about doing a record together.
UTR: So it was just common
sense at that point.
Greg: Yeah. We were gigging together
and hanging out together all the time. You can do good or you can do bad, and
we decided to do a little bit of good [laughs]
UTR: This is a strictly a
rock and roll project, correct?
Greg: It’s kind of rock and
roll. It’s actually a little bit more…there are country and folk
elements all over it, and there are electronic elements too. It’s a strange
record. It’s strange. It doesn’t sound like either one of us.
UTR: Do you split the vocals?
Greg: We split vocals. and there’s a couple songs that we sing top to
bottom in harmony. There are nods to The Everly Brothers. There are nods to
Simon and Garfunkel. There are nods to The Stooges and Primal Scream too.
UTR: Is there a time frame
to releasing that record?
Greg: Well, we seem to work on it
every Christmas. This is our third Christmas coming up. And I think this Christmas
is when we’ll lock it down.
UTR: Well, Merry Christmas
to you then. I read that you’re working with some high profile guests
this time around on the Twilight record. Not just Lanegan, but Ani DiFranco,
Joseph Arthur. I’m wondering how this influenced your creative process
on the record. Is it a more open, collaborative-type of project?
Greg: Joseph Arthur and I collaborated
on a couple of songs. And we wrote one song together, which is gorgeous. Ani
is my producer’s girlfriend, and she’s a friend of mine too, and
she’s singing on two songs. But it was her suggestion. She actually liked
one song in particular and went in and did this vocal harmony that I would have
never thought of and it really elevates the song. I think she’s a fantastic
singer, and she certainly did me a big favor by singing on this song, because
it completely transformed the song.
UTR: How will the album compare
to Twilight and Blackberry Belle?
Greg: Easy answer is logical progression,
but it probably is a little more harder rock than either one of those.
UTR: I know I’m jumping
around a bit here, but I’m wondering what made you want to work with [the
Italian band] After Hours.
Greg: I had seen them play in Italy
years ago and I was really moved by their performance. They’re a really
emotional and visceral onstage group. They gave me a couple of their records.
I think I listened to them a little bit, but then they invited the Twilight
Singers to go over and tour with them a couple of years ago. And I went on tour
with them and I got to see them, probably eight nights in a row, and they blew
my mind. They’re beautiful human beings and great musicians and songwriters,
and they asked me to produce their record and said they were going to do it
in Catania, which was my favorite city in Sicily, and would I come over there
for five weeks and co-write and produce their record. It was May and June of
last year, and that’s a nice time to be on the Italian Riviera, bro, so
it was kind of a no-brainer [laughs].
UTR: So do you strategically
pick your times to go back over, because I know you’re going over to play
with them soon?
Greg: Yeah, because it’s summer
[laughs]. We’re playing a bunch of resort towns. You know, 10-20,000
people will come to see them play every night and I’ll get driven around
in my own Mercedes and stay in a five-star hotel by the beach.
UTR: And play some piano
and guitar.
Greg: I play piano and guitar, and
I sing with them too. I sing a song in Italian at the end of the show every
night. I don’t know what I’m saying, but my pronunciation is impeccable
[laughs].
UTR: A true craftsman. I
have to ask this: With the recent successes of bands like The Pixies, Dinosaur
Jr. and even Slint, do you ever feel inclined to reform the Whigs for one last
go around?
Greg: [quickly] No, nah,
no. We’ve gotten some offers, and we’ve gotten some nice offers.
But, I’ll put it to you this way. We weren’t big enough to get the
kind of money I’m looking for. You know what I’m saying? I loved
The Pixies. I loved Dinosaur. I loved Slint. So I’m not going to say anything
about those groups, except for, if that’s what they wanted to do, then
good on ‘em. But I tend to lean more toward what Bob Mould says about
Hüsker Dü. I did it already. If the Whigs were—well, it’s
not even a question, because if we were an ongoing entity that were still being
creative and making records, that would be a whole ‘nother story. But
[a reunion] would literally be going out and playing songs that we all played
2,000 times already. And I think that might…I’ll never say never,
but I’m saying not now.
UTR: Was it an amicable break?
I got the impression that it was.
Greg: Oh yeah. Yeah. I talk to [bassist]
John Curley every week. I talk to Rick [McCollum, guitarist] every two weeks.
They’re my boys and I love them and I support their projects. I’ve
played with both of them since then. John’s on Amber Headlights
and Rick’s on Powder Burns, which is the [Twilight Singers] record
that’s coming up. So I still talk with them and collaborate with them.
But as far as being The Afghan Whigs, again, we were and we did it extremely
well.
UTR: From the choices you’ve
seemed like you’ve made throughout your career, you don’t seem like
the kind who would go into it strictly for the money.
Greg: No, well I barely made any
money in the first place [laughs]. I never did it for the money. I
did it because it fed my passion, and that’s what I have to have. And
the fact that I was able to go out and take some time off and then come back
and do something wholly my own has been enormously satisfying, if on a smaller
scale. I’m doing fine.
UTR: You talk about Hüsker
Dü, and I’ve talked to Bob Mould and it seemed to me that for him,
being in Hüsker Dü and Sugar and being the rock and roll guy is almost
the cross he has to bear. Like he’s got to answer questions like I’m
asking you, about his old band, every single time.
Greg: But see, I don’t mind
talking about the Whigs. At all. I guess I get the feeling that Bob’s
situation was much more unpleasant than mine. And for him to have to deal with
the infighting and Grant [Hart]’s drug abuse. I didn’t have that.
So, it was literally, our situation was like, the day came when we all looked
at each other and realized that we’d taken it as far as it was supposed
to go. And we hugged each other and said goodbye. Said goodbye to that, but
did not say goodbye to each other. We’re very active in each other’s
lives.
UTR: Have you seen the documentary?
[Ed note: Upcoming documentary</i> Ladies and Gentelmen, <i>created
by Afghan Whigs’ soundman, Steve Girton, which chronicles the band’s
1993 European tour]
Greg: I have not.
UTR: I wonder whether that’s
a time that you’d even care to relive. I always had the impression that
1993 was a tough time. Gentleman was an emotionally heavy album.
Greg: Yeah. I don’t even have
a copy, and I don’t want a copy, of the documentary. I think it’s
great for people who want to check it out. But, I don’t know. What is
that, 12 years ago? I lived that. I don’t need to look at it, you know.
UTR: Ever thought of re-releasing
Big Top Halloween, because I see that it goes for a pretty penny on
eBay these days?
Greg: Curley talks about that. It
is horrible. It is a horrible record. So the idea of pimping that out is not
up my alley. But if John Curley wants to take it on and send me one fourth of
the money, I’m certain that my accountant would accept that check. We’re
actually going to do a retrospective with Rhino [Records] next year, and I’ve
already begun digging up some old stuff. And there’s some cool stuff that
no one ever heard, including two of the last songs we ever did as a band, which
I was actually really excited about.
UTR: What’s the next
Greg Dulli project that will come out? Is it going to be Twilight Singers? Is
it going to be Gutter Twins? Are you doing production work?
Greg: Twilight Singers. And the record
is going to be called Powder Burns. My deadline to get it done is November
1, and if I get it done by November 1, I will be able to put it out in late
February, and that’s my plan. And I’m pretty close. I’m going
to have four for-sure songs mixed before I leave for Italy on Saturday.
UTR: Alright, well best of
luck, and enjoy your time overseas.
Greg: Right back at ya. Thanks a
lot, man. See ya.
9/2005